{"id":19597,"date":"2015-01-29T13:19:37","date_gmt":"2015-01-29T12:19:37","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.invarena.cz\/?p=19597"},"modified":"2015-01-29T13:19:37","modified_gmt":"2015-01-29T12:19:37","slug":"budme-narocni-postizenym-detem-ulevy-ublizuji","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.invarena.cz\/?p=19597","title":{"rendered":"Bu\u010fme n\u00e1ro\u010dn\u00ed. Posti\u017een\u00fdm d\u011btem \u00falevy ubli\u017euj\u00ed"},"content":{"rendered":"

Prezident Milo\u0161 Zeman si mysl\u00ed, \u017ee posti\u017een\u00e9 d\u011bti ostatn\u00ed ve \u0161kole zdr\u017euj\u00ed. Pro\u010d nejsme jako jin\u00e9 vysp\u011bl\u00e9 n\u00e1rody schopni p\u0159istoupit na spole\u010dn\u00e9 vzd\u011bl\u00e1v\u00e1n\u00ed? \u0160estasedmdes\u00e1tilet\u00e1 psycholo\u017eka V\u011bra Pokorn\u00e1 pracuje s posti\u017een\u00fdmi d\u011btmi cel\u00fd \u017eivot. Podle n\u00ed za probl\u00e9m mohou i komunist\u00e9, kte\u0159\u00ed je zav\u00edrali do \u00fastav\u016f.<\/strong><\/p>\n

PRAHA Od V\u011bry Pokorn\u00e9 neusly\u0161\u00edte o \u017e\u00e1dn\u00e9 inkluzi, tom otravn\u00e9m slovu, kter\u00e9 ka\u017ed\u00e9ho znechut\u00ed. Psycholo\u017eka vypr\u00e1v\u00ed o tom, jak posti\u017een\u00ed \u017eili se zdrav\u00fdmi naprosto b\u011b\u017en\u011b. Ov\u0161em jen do p\u0159\u00edchodu komunismu, kter\u00fd v\u0161echno zm\u011bnil. Abychom kone\u010dn\u011b po letech sna\u017een\u00ed dok\u00e1zali s posti\u017een\u00fdmi vych\u00e1zet, nepot\u0159ebujeme zm\u011bnit z\u00e1kony, ale my\u0161len\u00ed spole\u010dnosti. M\u00edt vzd\u011blan\u00e9 odborn\u00edky, kte\u0159\u00ed n\u00e1m chyb\u011bj\u00ed, inspirovat se v cizin\u011b. A d\u011bti nem\u011b\u0159it, ale rozv\u00edjet. U\u017e od ran\u00e9ho d\u011btstv\u00ed.<\/p>\n

– Jak velk\u00e9 pokroky m\u016f\u017ee d\u00edt\u011b ud\u011blat, kdy\u017e se s n\u00edm dob\u0159e pracuje, je patrn\u00e9 z obr\u00e1zk\u016f, kter\u00e9 jste n\u00e1m uk\u00e1zala. Kam a\u017e jste schopn\u00e1 d\u00edt\u011b vyt\u00e1hnout?<\/p>\n

B\u011bhem dvou t\u0159\u00ed sezen\u00ed ud\u011blaj\u00ed d\u011bti velk\u00e9 pokroky. N\u011bkdy ale rodi\u010de necht\u011bj\u00ed velkou zm\u011bnu. P\u0159eu\u010duj\u00ed d\u011bti zp\u00e1tky na to, na co byly zvykl\u00e9.<\/p>\n

– Necht\u011bj\u00ed, aby se jejich d\u00edt\u011b zlep\u0161ovalo? To p\u0159ece ned\u00e1v\u00e1 smysl.<\/p>\n

Kdy\u017e se jejich d\u00edt\u011b zlep\u0161\u00ed „moc“, sn\u00ed\u017e\u00ed se jejich soci\u00e1ln\u00ed d\u00e1vky. Od m\u00edry posti\u017een\u00ed se pak odv\u00edj\u00ed v\u00fd\u0161e pomoci od st\u00e1tu. Matky posti\u017een\u00fdch d\u011bt\u00ed jsou \u010dasto samo\u017eivitelky, otec ode\u0161el. Stejn\u011b jsou s d\u00edt\u011btem po\u0159\u00e1d, nemohou norm\u00e1ln\u011b pracovat a pen\u00edze by jim chyb\u011bly. Tak to u n\u00e1s chod\u00ed. V\u0161echny mus\u00edme n\u011bkam za\u0161katulkovat, aby se s nimi \u00fa\u0159edn\u00edk\u016fm l\u00e9pe pracovalo. Proto i te\u010f \u0159e\u0161\u00edme, jak ov\u011b\u0159ovat, zda d\u00edt\u011b m\u00e1 na to zvl\u00e1dnout b\u011b\u017enou z\u00e1kladn\u00ed \u0161kolu. Jak\u00e9 je jeho IQ, kam ho m\u00e1me za\u0159adit. A jestli by mu nebylo se sv\u00fdmi probl\u00e9my l\u00e9pe v praktick\u00e9.<\/p>\n

– Pro\u010d v N\u011bmecku nebo Rakousku chod\u00ed posti\u017een\u00ed do b\u011b\u017en\u00fdch \u0161kol, kde\u017eto u n\u00e1s to st\u00e1le nejde?<\/p>\n

V\u00edte, d\u0159\u00edv by o tomhle nikdo neuva\u017eoval. J\u00e1 jsem se narodila na za\u010d\u00e1tku druh\u00e9 sv\u011btov\u00e9 v\u00e1lky. Ve \u0161kole byl chudobinec, nebyl s t\u00edm probl\u00e9m. Byly samoz\u0159ejm\u011b speci\u00e1ln\u00ed \u00fastavy pro d\u011bti s v\u00fdrazn\u00fdmi smyslov\u00fdmi deficity, ale \u017e\u00e1dn\u00e9 zvl\u00e1\u0161tn\u00ed t\u0159\u00eddy nebyly. Pak p\u0159i\u0161lo obdob\u00ed komunismu a p\u0159esv\u011bd\u010den\u00ed, \u017ee bude nejlep\u0161\u00ed, kdy\u017e d\u011bti s r\u016fzn\u00fdmi obt\u00ed\u017eemi budou vychov\u00e1v\u00e1ny spole\u010dn\u011b. Posti\u017een\u00ed jedinci byli v \u00fastavech a b\u011b\u017en\u00ed lid\u00e9 se s nimi v \u017eivot\u011b nesetk\u00e1vali. Dnes na n\u011b nejsou zvykl\u00ed, nev\u011bd\u00ed, jak s nimi jednat, a p\u0159i kontaktu s nimi jsou nejist\u00ed.<\/p>\n

– Vy jste po revoluci odjela do Evropy, kde jste zji\u0161\u0165ovala, jak to maj\u00ed kde za\u0159\u00edzen\u00e9. Co jste se nau\u010dila?<\/p>\n

Vid\u011bla jsem tam d\u011bti, u\u010ditele i \u0159editele, jak r\u00e1di chod\u00ed do \u0161koly. Atmosf\u00e9ra \u0161koly tam byla \u00fapln\u011b jin\u00e1, na tom stra\u0161n\u011b z\u00e1le\u017e\u00ed. Vid\u011bla jsem to v Norsku, Nizozemsku, D\u00e1nsku, ve \u0160v\u00e9dsku. Tady jsou po\u0159\u00e1d u\u010ditel\u00e9, kte\u0159\u00ed \u0159eknou, \u017ee si vezmou do t\u0159\u00eddy posti\u017een\u00e9 d\u011bti, a\u017e budou m\u00edt plat jako u\u010ditel\u00e9 v N\u011bmecku. P\u0159esv\u011bd\u010den\u00ed tam \u017e\u00e1dn\u00e9 nen\u00ed. U\u010ditel\u00e9 si nev\u011b\u0159\u00ed, nec\u00edt\u00ed se jako profesion\u00e1lov\u00e9, a po pravd\u011b jimi \u010dasto ani nejsou. Ve \u0161kol\u00e1ch je neu\u010d\u00ed, jak pracovat s d\u011btmi, kter\u00e9 jsou „jin\u00e9“.<\/p>\n

– Na pedagogick\u00fdch fakult\u00e1ch se to neu\u010d\u00ed?<\/p>\n

Nemohu mluvit v\u0161eobecn\u011b, ale pokud pracuji s u\u010diteli, pak m\u00e1m pocit, \u017ee jejich v\u011bdomosti jsou dosti povrchn\u00ed. P\u0159itom je to d\u016fle\u017eit\u00e9. V\u011bda se rychle vyv\u00edj\u00ed! Je pot\u0159eba hodn\u011b \u010d\u00edst, vzd\u011bl\u00e1vat se, u\u010dit se nov\u00fdm poznatk\u016fm. Na to \u010dasto u\u010ditel\u00e9 nemaj\u00ed \u010das. Ani se to od nich nevy\u017eaduje.<\/p>\n

– Povinn\u00fd posledn\u00ed rok \u0161kolky Jak funguj\u00ed \u0161koly ve st\u00e1tech, kter\u00e9 jste nav\u0161t\u00edvila?<\/p>\n

Kdy\u017e jsme mluvili o Norsku nebo Finsku, tam maj\u00ed velkou v\u00fdhodu, \u017ee s posti\u017een\u00fdmi lidmi v\u017edycky \u017eili a kontinuita se nikdy nep\u0159eru\u0161ila. V\u017edycky v\u011bd\u011bli, co ti lid\u00e9 pot\u0159ebuj\u00ed, proto\u017ee si to p\u0159ed\u00e1vali z generace na generaci. Nepot\u0159ebovali na to speci\u00e1ln\u00ed pedagogiku, inkluzi a podobn\u011b. V\u00fdchodn\u00ed N\u011bmecko po p\u00e1du \u017eelezn\u00e9 opony vyt\u00e1hla z\u00e1padn\u00ed \u010d\u00e1st znovu sjednocen\u00e9 zem\u011b, v Polsku byli zase zem\u011bd\u011blci, tak\u017ee tam k segregaci nedo\u0161lo \u00fapln\u011b.<\/p>\n

– Co d\u011bl\u00e1me v \u010cesku za nejv\u011bt\u0161\u00ed chyby?<\/p>\n

V\u00edte, tady se raz\u00ed teorie, \u017ee bez pen\u011bz to nejde a \u017ee je pot\u0159eba z\u00e1zem\u00ed. Vytv\u00e1\u0159\u00edme proto po\u0159\u00e1d n\u011bjak\u00e1 opat\u0159en\u00ed, pen\u00edze d\u00e1v\u00e1me, ale \u0161koly se m\u011bn\u00ed hrozn\u011b pomalu. Mn\u011b ukazovali v Rakousku \u0161kolu, kde maj\u00ed v\u00fdtah pro voz\u00ed\u010dk\u00e1\u0159e a speci\u00e1ln\u011b upraven\u00e9 plo\u0161iny. A pak skoro omluvn\u011b jinou, kde d\u00edt\u011bti nesl do schod\u016f voz\u00edk spolu\u017e\u00e1k, dal\u0161\u00ed mu nesl ta\u0161ku a dva ho p\u0159idr\u017eovali, kdy\u017e se s\u00e1m po z\u00e1bradl\u00ed \u0161plhal nahoru. To je podle m\u011b to, co by tady p\u0159irozen\u011b m\u011blo b\u00fdt. D\u00e1t ka\u017ed\u00e9mu \u017e\u00e1kovi asistenta nen\u00ed podle mne v\u017edycky ta nejspr\u00e1vn\u011bj\u0161\u00ed cesta.<\/p>\n

– Evropsk\u00e1 unie n\u00e1s op\u011btovn\u011b vin\u00ed z diskriminace romsk\u00fdch \u017e\u00e1k\u016f, kter\u00e9 diagnostikujeme jako lehce ment\u00e1ln\u011b retardovan\u00e9, tak\u017ee oni \u010dasto kon\u010d\u00ed v praktick\u00fdch \u0161kol\u00e1ch. Jak z toho ven?<\/p>\n

My jsme to zkazili v minulosti, kdy jsme jim vzali v\u0161echno jejich v\u010detn\u011b kultury a nutili jsme je, aby se chovali jako my. Te\u010f je to probl\u00e9m. Nerozum\u00edme jim. Kdo tady v\u00ed, \u017ee maj\u00ed kastovn\u00ed syst\u00e9m? Jak oni pohl\u00ed\u017eej\u00ed na n\u00e1s, historicky? My si mus\u00edme jasn\u011b \u0159\u00edct, bu\u010f v\u011b\u0159\u00edme, \u017ee jednou se s t\u011bmi Romy tady nau\u010d\u00edme \u017e\u00edt, anebo tomu nev\u011b\u0159\u00edme a pak jak\u00e9koli jin\u00e9 snahy nemaj\u00ed cenu. Co funguje, je rozv\u00edjet d\u011bti je\u0161t\u011b p\u0159edt\u00edm, ne\u017e je za\u010dneme testovat. Alespo\u0148 rok p\u0159edt\u00edm, ne\u017e maj\u00ed nastoupit do \u0161koly.<\/p>\n

– Je podle v\u00e1s spr\u00e1vn\u00e1 my\u0161lenka povinn\u00e9ho posledn\u00edho roku mate\u0159sk\u00e9 \u0161koly, jak ho pl\u00e1nuje zav\u00e9st ministr \u0161kolstv\u00ed Marcel Chl\u00e1dek?<\/p>\n

Pokud s d\u011btmi budou doopravdy pracovat a zku\u0161en\u011b je rozv\u00edjet, tak ano. Odklad, kdy se pouze \u010dek\u00e1, a\u017e d\u00edt\u011b „doroste“, je k ni\u010demu. Tady prob\u011bhl pokus v devades\u00e1t\u00fdch letech na \u017di\u017ekov\u011b, kde chodily romsk\u00e9 d\u011bti do jak\u00e9hosi p\u0159\u00edpravn\u00e9ho ro\u010dn\u00edku. U\u010ditelky s nimi m\u011bly mnoho pr\u00e1ce, u\u010dily je v podstat\u011b z\u00e1kladn\u00edm hygienick\u00fdm n\u00e1vyk\u016fm, ale nau\u010dily je to. Vypiplaly je a pak jim tam p\u0159i\u0161ly jejich d\u011bti, kter\u00e9 u\u017e byly \u010dist\u00e9 a tyto n\u00e1vyky m\u011bly.<\/p>\n

– Vy pracujete s d\u011btmi metodou profesora Reuvena Feuersteina. V\u00fdsledky m\u00e1te v\u00fdborn\u00e9, v \u010dem je kl\u00ed\u010d?<\/p>\n

Feuerstein byl velk\u00fd optimista. V\u011b\u0159il, \u017ee ka\u017ed\u00e9 d\u00edt\u011b je mo\u017en\u00e9 zm\u011bnit. Kdo s nimi pracuje, mus\u00ed tuto v\u00edru m\u00edt. Mus\u00ed je v\u00e9st, rozv\u00edjet, a z\u00e1rove\u0148 b\u00fdt d\u016fsledn\u00fd a n\u00e1ro\u010dn\u00fd. B\u011b\u017en\u011b nicm\u00e9n\u011b panuje n\u00e1zor, \u017ee tyto d\u011bti jsou rychle unaviteln\u00e9, \u017ee jim mus\u00edme d\u00e1vat \u00falevy. D\u011bti se pak na takov\u00e9 jedn\u00e1n\u00ed spol\u00e9haj\u00ed a nejsou zvykl\u00e9 se sna\u017eit. O\u010dek\u00e1vaj\u00ed se od nich jen n\u00edzk\u00e9 v\u00fdkony. U\u017e v rodin\u011b se k nim m\u00e1 p\u0159istupovat d\u016fsledn\u011b. Stejn\u011b tak u\u010ditel\u00e9. \u0158\u00edci, on u\u017e je unaven\u00fd, nebo nem\u00e1 na to, to je jednoduch\u00e9 \u0159e\u0161en\u00ed, kter\u00e9 t\u011bmto d\u011btem ubli\u017euje.<\/p>\n

Mark\u00e9ta B\u0159ezinov\u00e1, redaktorka MF DNES<\/p>\n

Mlad\u00e1 fronta DNES<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Prezident Milo\u0161 Zeman si mysl\u00ed, \u017ee posti\u017een\u00e9 d\u011bti ostatn\u00ed ve \u0161kole zdr\u017euj\u00ed. Pro\u010d nejsme jako jin\u00e9 vysp\u011bl\u00e9 n\u00e1rody schopni p\u0159istoupit na spole\u010dn\u00e9 vzd\u011bl\u00e1v\u00e1n\u00ed? \u0160estasedmdes\u00e1tilet\u00e1 psycholo\u017eka […]<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":18796,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[9],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-19597","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-zpravy"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.invarena.cz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/19597","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.invarena.cz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.invarena.cz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.invarena.cz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.invarena.cz\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=19597"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.invarena.cz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/19597\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.invarena.cz\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/18796"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.invarena.cz\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=19597"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.invarena.cz\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=19597"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.invarena.cz\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=19597"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}